1 Corinthians 5:11: But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed,or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler- not even to eat with such a one.
I'm definately not sure about what I think about this. We all sin, and all sin is sin no matter what way you look at it, right? There can be more concequences from one sin to another but it's sin all the same. It's also all forgiven if we truly ask, if we truly want to change our ways for the Lord. I guess this would mean don't say, "I'm a Christian, I'm a brother of yours," then go knowingly participate in the list of things not to do listed in that verse. I don't know if it means don't associate with them at all? I mean- Jesus went and changed the tax collectors' and all of those peoples' hearts, do we discriminate whose hearts we try to touch, try to show the Lord's love to, by exactly what act they have participated in since we all sin?
I don't know what I'm trying to say...I don't know, I'm confused..
I think this passage is saying to not associate with those who are SO stuck in sin, that the purpose of not associating with them is redemptive with respect to the person committing the sin. This person needs to realize and repent of his/her sin.
My commentary with verse 13 says, "As the newly constituted people of God, the Corinthians are to follow God's instructions to Israel for preserving its holiness when flagrant, unrepented-of sin is in its midst. In this case, they are to do so by excommunicating the man committing incest."
Does that make sense? It seems a little ironic that Scripture is saying to "excommunicate" someone, but at the same time they need to repent... hmmm. But where's the balance of displaying Christ's love and grace to those people but also "not associating" with them?
I'm also thinking this may be referring to those people, again, who are SO stuck in sin, and when they are around fellow believers they are causing THEM to sin as well. We don't want to associate with those people, who drag us down into sin right along with them, right?
another point in my commentary referred to 2 thessalonians 3:14-15 - "If anyone does not obey what we say in this letter, take note of that person, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed. Do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother."
Commentary on that: Paul believes it is very possible that some will ignore his warning and continue in their idle ways, so he instructs the community as a whole to take note of such people and have nothing to do with them. The purpose of this disassociation is so that the stubbornly insubordinate brothers will be ashamed, repent, and be restored to the community. *Church discipline must always aim at renewing discipleship.* <--- I like that.
1 Corinthians 5 really confused me. When I first read about just not communicating with those whose lives depend on sin, I didn't understand. Aren't we supposed to be a light of the Lord to people on Earth? "Let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven." Matthew 5:16. If we were meant to be a light to people, then why would God tell us not to associate with sinners? Possibly because if we become caught up in other people's sin, then we will begin to sin more ourselves. I don't know. Very confused.
This is a wonderful example of scripture that we really have to use the context and our knowledge of other scripture to compare it to.
I really just want to highlight some things already said.
God is NOT saying that:
-Don't associate with people who are caught is sin. Hello, this is our mission and we are caught in it to.
It is saying that:
-If we look at the context, there is a man in the church who is having sex with his mother and sits in Church and doesn't change his ways and no one does anything about. Paul is adressing this issue and says: Don't even associate with this brother if he is caught up in this sin. He needs to be convicted by not letting him worship. Hopefully this brother will realize the presence of sin and repent and come back to ther church.
-It also says he is not talking about the immoral of the world, because once again, scripture tells us to share Christ's love with them. It is talking about the people who are fellow Christians who are not even regarding their sin. Paul is writing to them that toleration among brothers for this kind of stuff has to stop. If you remember from the background one big problem the COrinthians has was being holy or "set apart". They were practicing the same kind of immoral deeds as the heathan. How in the world are people suspposed to see the effects of Christ's love if nothing is different.
-My BIble commentates that "do not associate" also says that just being around that sin and not doing anything about it is saying that the sin is ok. This needed to stop in the Corinthian church. It was not ok what was happening.
So in my humble opinion what do we take away? -We are to love and associate with the immoral and love them with the love of Christ.
-Our lives should be distinguishably different. Jesus associated with the prostitutes and criminals but no one ever thought he was one of them. So you can associate with non-believers and you should but if people have no idea that you are a Christian then we should not dare be associated with them in the sense that we approve or take part in their immorality.
-If a brother or sister is caught up in sin that they are unrepentant for, call them out and do not be associated with that sin. Make sure they know that you love them and want them to overcome the sin. But if they are not going to stop this sin (like sexual immorality), then make sure you do not associate yourself with a believer that is not willing to represent Chirst who they are.
-Realize that this refers more to extreme sin like the man who has sex with his mom, not someone who struggles with lust. If you have someone in your life that you are not sure of then let's talk about it before you consider "not associating" with them
yeah i was about to say.....if i am not to associate with someone who sins, then nobody ought to associate with me!....we all are sinners.
but i see the point paul is making here...that if it is an extreme sin that the person is blind to or choosing to disregard and not change, to not associate with that person.
the hard part is, how do you call out a fellow believer? i have such a hard time with confrontation.
1 Corinthians 5:11: But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed,or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler- not even to eat with such a one.
ReplyDeleteI'm definately not sure about what I think about this. We all sin, and all sin is sin no matter what way you look at it, right? There can be more concequences from one sin to another but it's sin all the same. It's also all forgiven if we truly ask, if we truly want to change our ways for the Lord. I guess this would mean don't say, "I'm a Christian, I'm a brother of yours," then go knowingly participate in the list of things not to do listed in that verse. I don't know if it means don't associate with them at all? I mean- Jesus went and changed the tax collectors' and all of those peoples' hearts, do we discriminate whose hearts we try to touch, try to show the Lord's love to, by exactly what act they have participated in since we all sin?
I don't know what I'm trying to say...I don't know, I'm confused..
?
I think this passage is saying to not associate with those who are SO stuck in sin, that the purpose of not associating with them is redemptive with respect to the person committing the sin. This person needs to realize and repent of his/her sin.
ReplyDeleteMy commentary with verse 13 says, "As the newly constituted people of God, the Corinthians are to follow God's instructions to Israel for preserving its holiness when flagrant, unrepented-of sin is in its midst. In this case, they are to do so by excommunicating the man committing incest."
Does that make sense? It seems a little ironic that Scripture is saying to "excommunicate" someone, but at the same time they need to repent... hmmm. But where's the balance of displaying Christ's love and grace to those people but also "not associating" with them?
I'm also thinking this may be referring to those people, again, who are SO stuck in sin, and when they are around fellow believers they are causing THEM to sin as well. We don't want to associate with those people, who drag us down into sin right along with them, right?
Thoughts?
another point in my commentary referred to 2 thessalonians 3:14-15 - "If anyone does not obey what we say in this letter, take note of that person, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed. Do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother."
ReplyDeleteCommentary on that: Paul believes it is very possible that some will ignore his warning and continue in their idle ways, so he instructs the community as a whole to take note of such people and have nothing to do with them. The purpose of this disassociation is so that the stubbornly insubordinate brothers will be ashamed, repent, and be restored to the community. *Church discipline must always aim at renewing discipleship.* <--- I like that.
1 Corinthians 5 really confused me. When I first read about just not communicating with those whose lives depend on sin, I didn't understand. Aren't we supposed to be a light of the Lord to people on Earth? "Let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven." Matthew 5:16. If we were meant to be a light to people, then why would God tell us not to associate with sinners? Possibly because if we become caught up in other people's sin, then we will begin to sin more ourselves. I don't know. Very confused.
ReplyDeleteThis is a wonderful example of scripture that we really have to use the context and our knowledge of other scripture to compare it to.
ReplyDeleteI really just want to highlight some things already said.
God is NOT saying that:
-Don't associate with people who are caught is sin. Hello, this is our mission and we are caught in it to.
It is saying that:
-If we look at the context, there is a man in the church who is having sex with his mother and sits in Church and doesn't change his ways and no one does anything about. Paul is adressing this issue and says: Don't even associate with this brother if he is caught up in this sin. He needs to be convicted by not letting him worship. Hopefully this brother will realize the presence of sin and repent and come back to ther church.
-It also says he is not talking about the immoral of the world, because once again, scripture tells us to share Christ's love with them. It is talking about the people who are fellow Christians who are not even regarding their sin. Paul is writing to them that toleration among brothers for this kind of stuff has to stop. If you remember from the background one big problem the COrinthians has was being holy or "set apart". They were practicing the same kind of immoral deeds as the heathan. How in the world are people suspposed to see the effects of Christ's love if nothing is different.
-My BIble commentates that "do not associate" also says that just being around that sin and not doing anything about it is saying that the sin is ok. This needed to stop in the Corinthian church. It was not ok what was happening.
So in my humble opinion what do we take away?
-We are to love and associate with the immoral and love them with the love of Christ.
-Our lives should be distinguishably different. Jesus associated with the prostitutes and criminals but no one ever thought he was one of them. So you can associate with non-believers and you should but if people have no idea that you are a Christian then we should not dare be associated with them in the sense that we approve or take part in their immorality.
-If a brother or sister is caught up in sin that they are unrepentant for, call them out and do not be associated with that sin. Make sure they know that you love them and want them to overcome the sin. But if they are not going to stop this sin (like sexual immorality), then make sure you do not associate yourself with a believer that is not willing to represent Chirst who they are.
-Realize that this refers more to extreme sin like the man who has sex with his mom, not someone who struggles with lust. If you have someone in your life that you are not sure of then let's talk about it before you consider "not associating" with them
yeah i was about to say.....if i am not to associate with someone who sins, then nobody ought to associate with me!....we all are sinners.
ReplyDeletebut i see the point paul is making here...that if it is an extreme sin that the person is blind to or choosing to disregard and not change, to not associate with that person.
the hard part is, how do you call out a fellow believer? i have such a hard time with confrontation.